Jon would be a complete idiot to not take the Stipe fight if he's getting paid 15 million for it

[Connection Lost]

That's like 15 months worth of cokems and hooking

 

[Squarechoke]

That's some "the kids will have to call 911 again" money.

 

[cmw43]

No not a chance in hell. UFC was offering Francis 8 million (supposedly allegedly). Whoever created those fake text messages saying this screwed up when they went with a 15 million amount. That shit isn't believable. Dana? 15 million? Dana developed a crack addiction?

What do you mean "supposedly allegedly"? Francis himself said on the Helwani show he was offered $8m for the Jones fight.

 

[ThaiSexPills]

He basically sold his legacy for 15m. He’ll be known as the dude who ducked Tom out of fear and held the heavyweight belt hostage to do it.

 

[Stump]

Obviously even a dominant win over Stipe does jack shit for his legacy, but if he's getting 15 million for it, then why in the hell wouldn't he want this? The fight should be a gimme and Jon will be a shitload richer after it. If he really does retire afterwards instead of unifying, then he'll have a bad blemish on his record, but the bottom line is that even though the Stipe fight doesn't make sense from a sports perspective, it sure as hell makes sense for Jon.

Also, it doesn't obviously do jack shit.

The ufc and Jon will take this and run with it, he'll be declared the undisputed champ of lhw and hw, having beaten the best hw ever.

Half of sherdog knows thats bullshit, but the ufc marketing machine will carry on with the bullshit.

 

[Goutfather]

it’s amazing that some people still don’t understand why stipe is the correct fight for jones, notwithstanding money.

stipe is currently the best ufc hw champ ever. he has the most defenses and the best resume. he also happens to have a win over the “lineal” champ, fwiw. if jones beats stipe, he can correctly say “i went up to hw and beat the best hw champ ufc has ever had… i beat the guy who beat nggano…” etc. that helps his legacy.

what about aspinall? well, he’s just the next contender. that’s it. if jones wins, aspinall will immediately be dismissed as “never that good.” in fact, that’s exactly what happened to pavlovich after aspinall beat him. remember pavlovich? of course you don’t. that was last year. and let’s not even talk about gane, who is suddenly perceived as a can. beating aspinall would probably do very little for jones’s legacy.

“but stipe is washed up, and aspinall is in his prime.” assuming that’s true (and who knows if stipe really is washed), so what? stipe is stipe. his name means something. the only way aspinall’s name will mean anything is if he manages to beat jones.

 

[Stump]

He basically sold his legacy for 15m. He’ll be known as the dude who ducked Tom out of fear and held the heavyweight belt hostage to do it.

That's a pretty silly claim.

Late career match picking in no way detracts from jons incredible dominance at lhw.

It's the multiple drug and ped abuses, the domestic assaults and the other terrible things that detract from his legacy

 

[Stump]

it’s amazing that some people still don’t understand why stipe is the correct fight for jones, notwithstanding money.

stipe is currently the best ufc hw champ ever. he has the most defenses and the best resume. he also happens to have a win over the “lineal” champ, fwiw. if jones beats stipe, he can correctly say “i went up to hw and beat the best hw champ ufc has ever had… i beat the guy who beat nggano…” etc. that helps his legacy.

what about aspinall? well, he’s just the next contender. that’s it. if jones wins, aspinall will immediately be dismissed as “never that good.” in fact, that’s exactly what happened to pavlovich after aspinall beat him. remember pavlovich? of course you don’t. that was last year. and let’s not even talk about gane, who is suddenly perceived as a can. beating aspinall would probably do very little for jones’s legacy.

“but stipe is washed up, and aspinall is in his prime.” assuming that’s true (and who knows if stipe really is washed), so what? stipe is stipe. his name means something. the only way aspinall’s name will mean anything is if he manages to beat jones.

By this logic, jon should fight randy couture and Mark Coleman.

Recency matters. Stipe WAS a great hw, but he's a retired shell.

 

[Goutfather]

By this logic, jon should fight randy couture and Mark Coleman.

Recency matters. Stipe WAS a great hw, but he's a retired shell.

those two are long retired. they also do not hold the distinctions i mentioned. so you are not correctly applying the “logic” here. if stipe were 10 years retired, maybe you’d have a point, but he’s one a 1-fight losing streak. that’s it.

 

[RedDevilFan]

Yeah, everyone would be chill with it too if they just stripped him of the belt and kept things moving.

No,

Just like Chael Sonnen stated, Aspinall will lose his interim championship as soon as the GOAT contender is back. Like he stated, Jon Jones’ return will mean Aspinall is stripped of interim title. Meaning anyone who holds the belt will be in conflict with Jones or will be in his shadow because they did not beat him, unless Stipe does.

They have a big conflict with the belt situation.

 

[Oddmonster]

Oh I think most can agree he's smart for taking the easiest high payday he can.

I just think outside of Pink Goofasaurus, Picto Pokeyemon, and his last remaining handful of fans, virtually no one is excited for this bizarre circus fight.

What the fuck are you talking about? Jon vs Stipe is at least as relevant as Jake Logan vs Mike Tyson.

 

[Stump]

those two are long retired. they also do not hold the distinctions i mentioned. so you are not correctly applying the “logic” here. if stipe were 10 years retired, maybe you’d have a point, but he’s one a 1-fight losing streak. that’s it.

They are extreme examples of the same thing. I brought them up as jokes, really, to underline the nature of the situation.

I think we both probably understand one another here, and we seem to have different takes on how relevant stipe is. I suppose your position is, hey this guy is pretty inarguably the most accomplished UFC hw ever, he has a win over ngannou - these are very serious accolades and he is only on a 1 fight losing streak, and those things are all true.

I would counter by saying that this one loss was by pretty devastating ko, it was 4 years ago, he's been totally inactive since then and he's nearly 42 years old. These are massive caveats and in my opinion they definitely outweigh the positives you listed.

To put it most clearly, though, I think we should simply ask who you would favor in matchups against other hws? Do you tbink stipe would be the favourite over gane, aspinal, blaydes? I don't. I think this is the fairest way of assessing things. Yes, stipe holds records and has earned his status as the most accomplished ufc hw, but i think its pretty clear he is not the best hw fighter TODAY. The belt is supposed to be contested for by the best of the division. It's not supposed to be a vehicle for allowing one fighter to simply absorb the accolades and status of a past-his-prime opponent. It it were that, we should line up bas, randy and Coleman and then Jon can say he has thoroughly demolished everyone and is truly undisputed

 

[ThaiSexPills]

That's a pretty silly claim.

Late career match picking in no way detracts from jons incredible dominance at lhw.

It's the multiple drug and ped abuses, the domestic assaults and the other terrible things that detract from his legacy

I think it does overall. He very clearly and embarrassingly ducked Tom to fight a guy in his 40’s who last got knocked out cold 3 years ago.

MMA is very much a “what have you done lately” sport. I’ll give Jon props for fighting a murders row at LHW, as a young guy and doing what nobody else could do but he’ll be known as the dude who ran and hid instead of the guy who took on the best of a division and retired the old guard of LHW.

Instead of being known as the best ever which he probably is, he’ll be known as a POS wife eater/drug addict who ducked Tom Aspinall and made 1000000 excuses to do so.

 

[RedDevilFan]

I think it does overall. He very clearly and embarrassingly ducked Tom to fight a guy in his 40’s who last got knocked out cold 3 years ago.

MMA is very much a “what have you done lately” sport. I’ll give Jon props for fighting a murders row at LHW, as a young guy and doing what nobody else could do but he’ll be known as the dude who ran and hid instead of the guy who took on the best of a division and retired the old guard of LHW.

Instead of being known as the best ever which he probably is, he’ll be known as a POS wife eater/drug addict who ducked Tom Aspinall and made 1000000 excuses to do so.

That has already been debunked and is false.

Jon already had the fight with Stipe agreed upon before Tom was even a top division fighter. So how can one duck Tom for Stipe when Tom was not even in the picture when the Stipe fight was made and when it was brought up.

I feel like a broken record.

Tom was behind Gane, Blaydes, Sergei, and Jones when that fight with Stipe was made. His loss to Blaydes put him behind Blaydes and Sergei's win over Blaydes put both of them behind Sergei. So when that fight was made Tom was behind 4 top division HW fighters. He was not even considered a fill in for Jones v Stipe because he had lost to Blaydes and possibly not worth their time.

He is now the interim belt holder but when the initial fight was put in place he was not even a top 3 fighter on the roster. You can say he should fight Tom after the Stipe fight which is plausible but again he was not given the fight yet. You can say he possibly ducked Aspinall after the Stipe fight if he choses to fight someone else but that is all.

Outside of that Tom was not even worth the time of the UFC to give him a backup spot against jones vs Stipe which lets us know he was nowhere in the picture.

 

[ThaiSexPills]

That has already been debunked and is false.

Jon already had the fight with Stipe agreed upon before Tom was even a top division fighter. So how can one duck Tom for Stipe when Tom was not even in the picture when the Stipe fight was made and when it was brought up.

I feel like a broken record.

Tom was behind Gane, Blaydes, Sergei, and Jones when that fight with Stipe was made. His loss to Blaydes put him behind Blaydes and Sergei's win over Blaydes put both of them behind Sergei. So when that fight was made Tom was behind 4 top division HW fighters. He was not even considered a fill in for Jones v Stipe because he had lost to Blaydes and possibly not worth their time.

He is now the interim belt holder but when the initial fight was put in place he was not even a top 3 fighter on the roster. You can say he should fight Tom after the Stipe fight which is plausible but again he was not given the fight yet. You can say he possibly ducked Aspinall after the Stipe fight if he choses to fight someone else but that is all.

Outside of that Tom was not even worth the time of the UFC to give him a backup spot against jones vs Stipe which lets us know he was nowhere in the picture.

You can say it all you want and type all the words out but you cannot debunk me because it cannot be debunked. Jon is refusing to fight a guy with a more legit claim at a title than him, who is the interim champ.

This is totally I unprecedented- the whole point of interim champ is to hold the title until the champ is back from injury. So Jon comes back after a long injury where he could have vacated and refuses to unify belts. He needs to be stripped immediately. Any other champion who has done this (short list, most don’t duck so openly) get stripped or fight. GDR got stripped because she was scared of Amanda. It’s complete horseshit.

Who cares if Jon agreed to fight Stipe? Literally nobody besides Jon and Stipe care about that fight. There’s an active, interim champ defending his belt right now while Jon fights someone who doesn’t deserve a title shot. Stipe hasn’t fought in 3 years since a KO loss and is 43 years old, giving him a title shot is already bad enough but over an interim champ who is very clearly the top guy at HW? Insane. I mean, sure Jon can fight Stipe. Go ahead. But holding an entire division hostage to hold onto a belt you refuse to defend is very clearly a cowardly duck.

You can pick the “legacy” fight and make as many excuses as you want but you shouldn’t get to retain your title and have an interim champ the whole time you do that. It’s horseshit and nobody else would get the same privilege. If Jon wasn’t scared to face a young killer and was a serious champ instead of a paper one, he’d unify that belt.

I’m not a Jones hater like most and respect his legacy but this is total BS from the UFC. He should be made unify the championship or surrender his belt. Period. You cannot convince me the Stipe fight means a damn thing. It would be like O’Malley ducking the entire division to fight Cejudo. Stipe is past his prime and totally irrelevant now. Fighting a 43 year old man does nothing for legacy, nothing for the division and means nothing.

 

[RedDevilFan]

You can say it all you want and type all the words out but you cannot debunk me because it cannot be debunked. Jon is refusing to fight a guy with a more legit claim at a title than him, who is the interim champ.

I am not a jones Hater

"he’ll be known as a POS wife eater/drug addict"

It is a shit situation but that is the fight game. If the UFC wants to strip jones for getting injured that is up to them. it is not up to jon to surrender the belt. It is not up to jones to be Aspinalls manager.

There is no legit claim until the previous fight has actually ended or concluded.

We have already gone over this. Jones was not been offered Aspinall yet and this has been claimed by writers and Dana. So he cannot choose anyone over anyone else until his Stipe fght has concluded. Jones could lose to Stipe so that fight needs to conclude before we can move on.

The Stipe fight was put in place before Aspinall was even a contender for the interim belt. Yes, the whole point of the interim belt is to hold for the champion. It is not to usurp an already made agreement to fight another fighter.

After the Stipe fight if jones fights someone else then you can claim but as it stands the fight with Stipe was already agreed before Aspinall was in the top 3 division ranks.

 

[Soggust]

it’s amazing that some people still don’t understand why stipe is the correct fight for jones, notwithstanding money.

stipe is currently the best ufc hw champ ever. he has the most defenses and the best resume. he also happens to have a win over the “lineal” champ, fwiw. if jones beats stipe, he can correctly say “i went up to hw and beat the best hw champ ufc has ever had… i beat the guy who beat nggano…” etc. that helps his legacy.

what about aspinall? well, he’s just the next contender. that’s it. if jones wins, aspinall will immediately be dismissed as “never that good.” in fact, that’s exactly what happened to pavlovich after aspinall beat him. remember pavlovich? of course you don’t. that was last year. and let’s not even talk about gane, who is suddenly perceived as a can. beating aspinall would probably do very little for jones’s legacy.

“but stipe is washed up, and aspinall is in his prime.” assuming that’s true (and who knows if stipe really is washed), so what? stipe is stipe. his name means something. the only way aspinall’s name will mean anything is if he manages to beat jones.

So why doesn't he fight Randy Couture next?


edit - was a lazy quick response by me in hindsight bc you might argue Stipe > Randy, but perhaps better examples might even be ->

Should O'Malley wait for Dom Cruz over Merab?

Should DDP wait for Anderson Silva instead of Izzy or Khamzat or whoever you think is most deserving at 185?

 

[sonofjay817]

Obviously even a dominant win over Stipe does jack shit for his legacy, but if he's getting 15 million for it, then why in the hell wouldn't he want this? The fight should be a gimme and Jon will be a shitload richer after it. If he really does retire afterwards instead of unifying, then he'll have a bad blemish on his record, but the bottom line is that even though the Stipe fight doesn't make sense from a sports perspective, it sure as hell makes sense for Jon.

Did I miss something? i thought Jon was saying that's the fight that he did want to do before retiring.

 

[GrantB13]

Of course it makes sense for Jones. The thing is, us fans don't give a fuck. What do WE get? Nothing. I don't watch MMA to help pad a fighter's bank account.

 

[Dana's Conscience]

Because Jon Jones is an insecure egomaniac and if he goes with this route, he will never hear the end of ducking Aspinall for the rest of his life. It will slowly eat at him even though he will put a on good face publicly.

The point is that unless Jon loses to Stipe, the Aspinall fight will be there afterwards if he wants it (which he should, as ducking Tom and retiring would be a worse look than losing to him would be). That's two massive paydays. Jon's more likely to lose to Aspinall, in which case, he'd only have the one massive payday if he fought the guy now.