International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

[Hog-train]

You are the classic example of “Don’t believe Israeli women! Believe Hamas!”

No one has forgotten how you fought so hard against the sexual violence allegations and how much you stand by Hamas’ casualty list.

So no posts of mine then that you're going to "disprove"? Seems like you just want to attack the messenger because you don't like the message.

Get specific. Post any posts of mine you disagree with and can disprove. I stand by what I've said.

I am certainly not making blanket statements about you referring to the Jewish lobby dominating American political life. Here are your own words.

I literally just showed you all the Senators that got financial contributions by the Israel lobby and the amounts. Are you seriously trying to say the Jewish lobby doesn't have a strong influence on American politics?

 

[Samjj]

So no posts of mine then that you're going to "disprove"? Seems like you just want to attack the messenger because you don't like the message.

Get specific. Post any posts of mine you disagree with and can disprove. I stand by what I've said.

I have already referenced a number of posts that you had made which were factually inaccurate. (Drones used as traps in order to kill civilians, Hamas death toll, denying sexual violence.)

I don’t need to post dig in order to substantiate evidence as you probably have been the most defiant and insistent poster in making those claims.

Do you deny specifically that you defend Hamas’ casualty numbers?

Do you deny that you denied sexual violence allegations?

Do you deny making the post recently about the IDF employing tactics in order to specifically target and kill civilians?

 

[Hog-train]

I have already referenced a number of posts that you had made which were factually inaccurate. (Drones used as traps in order to kill civilians, Hamas death toll, denying sexual violence.)

That is so general and vague - how the hell am I supposed to address that?

Drones used as traps? I don't know what you're referring to. Show the post.

Hamas death toll? I'm not sure what you're getting at. I do not believe the Hamas death toll figures the IDF is claiming. You referring to that?

I completely stand by that.

Do you deny specifically that you defend Hamas’ casualty numbers?

See above. Yes I do not believe the Hama's casualty figures claimed by the IDF.

IDF spokesman recently came on Piers Morgan and had no idea how many civilians killed yet knows exactly how many Hamas killed. Makes zero sense and then eventually stunned into silence when Piers kept pressing.

"The IDF is being super careful to reduce civilian deaths."
Piers: "How many civilians have been killed."
IDF spokesman: "I have no idea how many civilians killed."

WTF - that makes absolutely no sense.

Whole interview is below, but I timestamped where they talk about the casualty figures.

Do you deny that you denied sexual violence allegations?

Never claimed there were zero sexual violence. Said some of it was completely unproven. I require proof of any accusations from either side.

There was news propagated that there were all these beheaded babies and babies in ovens that turned out to be false.

Do you deny making the post recently about the IDF employing tactics in order to specifically target and kill civilians?

I think they've shown willful disregard.

 

[Samjj]

That is so general and vague - how the hell am I supposed to address that?

Drones used as traps? I don't know what you're referring to. Show the post.




I think they've shown willful disregard.

These are not general accusations, they are very specific subjects which you have defended fiercely.

Here is your specific post regarding the IDF using drones as traps in order to kill civilians. You don’t remember posting it?

 

[Hog-train]

These are not general accusations, they are very specific subjects which you have defended fiercely.



Here is your specific post regarding the IDF using drones as traps in order to kill civilians. You don’t remember posting it?

Ok I posted a Twitter showing drones used as traps. So?

If I recall correctly, you asked me if I know this is true and I said IDK. Do you have proof this is not true?

 

[Samjj]

Ok I posted a Twitter showing drones used as traps. So?

If I recall correctly, you asked me if I know this is true and I said IDK. Do you have proof this is not true?

Ok, yeah I mean if you want to post uncorroborated Hamas propaganda, that’s your prerogative- just don’t get upset when you get called out for “innocently” posting Hamas propaganda and playing dumb about what you’re doing.

 

[Hog-train]

Ok, yeah I mean if you want to post uncorroborated Hamas propaganda, that’s your prerogative- just don’t get upset when you get called out for “innocently” posting Hamas propaganda and playing dumb about what you’re doing.

How is it propaganda if it's true? Proof it's not true? As far as I know, Euro-Med Monitor is a non profit based in Geneva Switzerland with no ties to Hamas.

And as I said before when you asked. I said IDK how accurate it is.

No comments on the Piers Morgan video I just posted? IDF spokesman clearly lying or withholding info about the casualty figures.

Seems you like to lob accusations, but not address and completely ignore when I show things that counter your narrative. Guy literally gets tongue tied at one moment and doesn't know WTF to say. No comment?

 

[Samjj]

How is it propaganda if it's true? Proof it's not true? As far as I know, Euro-Med Monitor is a non profit based in Geneva Switzerland with no ties to Hamas.

And as I said before when you asked. I said IDK how accurate it is.

No comments on the Piers Morgan video I just posted? IDF spokesman clearly lying or withholding info about the casualty figures.

Link me a legitimate source for the claim and I will consider engaging it as non propaganda.

The accuracy of the IDF figures is not the contention - you claim accuracy of Hamas figures.

 

[Hog-train]

Link me a legitimate source for the claim and I will consider engaging it as non propaganda.

The accuracy of the IDF figures is not the contention - you claim accuracy of Hamas figures.

I did a bit of digging. First post is the original recording that got the story started.

Then the second video is an interview with a young kid who witnessed it apparently.

As I said, IDK if it's true. People are free to look at it and make their own conclusions.

EDIT: found a snopes article analyzing the possibility of the story being true.

You're still completely ignoring the Hamas casualty figures claim with the IDF spokesman I just showed.

x.com

x.com

Snopes article analyzing the Twitter posts that went viral.

Did IDF Lure and Shoot Palestinians Using Drones Playing Recordings of Crying Infants?

The incendiary claim sounds like propaganda, but it is not as far-fetched as some suggest.

www.snopes.com

 

[Samjj]

I did a bit of digging. First post is the original recording that got the story started.

Then the second video is an interview with a young kid who witnessed it apparently.

As I said, IDK if it's true. People are free to look at it and make their own conclusions.

EDIT: found a snopes article analyzing the possibility of the story being true.

You're still completely ignoring the Hamas casualty figures claim with the IDF spokesman I just showed.

x.com

x.com

Snopes article analyzing the Twitter posts that went viral.

Did IDF Lure and Shoot Palestinians Using Drones Playing Recordings of Crying Infants?

The incendiary claim sounds like propaganda, but it is not as far-fetched as some suggest.

www.snopes.com

You’re asking me yet again to defend a position which I haven’t made in order to deflect from your position. Really dumb debate tactic.

The snopes link that you quoted cites the Euro-monitor source as its citation of authenticity. It doesn’t add creedence or veracity to the claim.

The IDF are not setting traps in order to murder civilians.

 

[Hog-train]

You’re asking me yet again to defend a position which I haven’t made in order to deflect from your position. Really dumb debate tactic.

The snopes link that you quoted cites the Euro-monitor source as its citation of authenticity. It doesn’t add creedence or veracity to the claim.

The IDF are not setting traps in order to murder civilians.

WTF. You're being disingenuous now.

The first Twitter post I linked was the original post that went viral. Not Euro-Med.

And as I said repeatedly with the Euro Med post, I said IDK if it's true. And then proceeded to look up all the info I could find and said make your own conclusions. The Snopes article I found last minute as reference. WTF more do you want. I just did all the homework for you.

Also, you're the one who brought up my Hamas casualties claim. I answered you straightforwardly and provided a recent interview as a source. I'm asking for a comment.

IDK why I keep thinking you're going to answer in good faith.

 

[Samjj]

WTF. You're being disingenuous now.

The first Twitter post I linked was the original post that went viral. Not Euro-Med.

And as I said repeatedly with the Euro Med post, I said IDK if it's true. And then proceeded to look up all the info I could find and said make your own conclusions. The Snopes article I found last minute as reference. WTF more do you want. I just did all the homework for you.

Also, you're the one who brought up my Hamas casualties claim. I answered you straightforwardly and provided a recent interview as a source. I'm asking for a comment.

IDK why I keep thinking you're going to answer in good faith.

Man, you seriously don’t read the articles or links that you post. Maybe you have terrible reading comprehension. Maybe both?

But hey, great job posting a link to an article that you didn’t read and misrepresenting its contents (repeated tactic by you, btw if we want to talk about bad faith)

If you had actually read the snopes article, they quoted the Euro-monitor as the one who had “authenticated” a social media post on twitter as their evidence.

 

[Hog-train]

Man, you seriously don’t read the articles or links that you post. Maybe you have terrible reading comprehension. Maybe both?

But hey, great job posting a link to an article that you didn’t read and misrepresenting its contents (repeated tactic by you, btw if we want to talk about bad faith)

If you had actually read the snopes article, they quoted the Euro-monitor as the one who had “authenticated” a social media post on twitter as their evidence.

You're looking for irrelevant details to invalidate it in any way without actually refuting it substantively. What difference does it make who "authenticated" it? That Twitter post that went viral was the original. And what's wrong with Euro-Med?

Regardless: Still believe the Hamas casualty figure after the IDF spokesman interview? It's a simple question.

 

[Samjj]

You're looking for irrelevant details to invalidate it in any way without actually refuting it substantively. What difference does it make who "authenticated" it? That Twitter post that went viral was the original. And what's wrong with Euro-Med?

Regardless: Still believe the Hamas casualty figure after the IDF spokesman interview? It's a simple question.

Certainly not irrelevant. I asked you for another independent reference and you brought me a reference citing the same report that you posted. This is not corroborated evidence. You posted a highly inflammatory report which was uncorroborated.

I don’t believe either the Hamas casualty figures or IDF figures to be accurate at this time. I have never stated otherwise - I am not sure why you are so hell bent on trying to straw man me in order to deflect from your positions.

You're looking for irrelevant details to invalidate it in any way without actually refuting it substantively.

This quote is particularly ironic coming from you, who on numerous occasions has refused to engage with source material based on the authors being Zionist or Israeli.

 

[Hog-train]

Certainly not irrelevant. I asked you for another independent reference and you brought me a reference citing the same report that you posted. This is not corroborated evidence.

I gave you the original video and said judge for yourself. I didn't assert it was true. I said IDK if it were true.

I don’t believe either the Hamas casualty figures or IDF figures to be accurate at this time. I have never stated otherwise - I am not sure why you are so hell bent on trying to straw man me in order to deflect from your positions.

I'm not trying to strawman anything. YOU were the one taking me to task for the Hamas casualty figures.

I essentially showed you video evidence that the IDF figures are full of shit and you don't have any answer to that. So now you're deflecting. That's the truth of the matter.

This quote is particularly ironic coming from you, who on numerous occasions has refused to engage with source material based on the authors being Zionist or Israeli.

I regret engaging with you. I'm answering you straight forward, but you're not being honest. You keep asking me questions to try to poke holes yet answer none of mine.

Truth of the matter is, you're obviously pro-Israel and I'm against Israel's policies. And you want to try to trip me up in logical inconsistencies regardless of the actual facts.

Sure try to do it. I'm going by facts and have no problem defending my position - but no point in engaging if you refuse to answer any of my questions. Dialogue is a two way street.

 

[Samjj]

So why are you taking me to task for not believing the Hamas casualty figures? Little hypocritical no?

This an out right lie from you.

You have repeatedly defended Hamas’ casualty numbers as being accurate.

 

[Hog-train]

This an out right lie from you.

You have repeatedly defended Hamas’ casualty numbers as being accurate.

The fuck?

I'm talking about the IDF reported number of Hamas killed. I do not believe the IDF's claims of Hamas killed.

HAMAS CASUALTY NUMBERS = number of Hamas killed.

Really going to make this dipshit semantic argument now?

 

[Samjj]

The fuck?

I'm talking about the IDF reported number of Hamas killed.

HAMAS CASUALTY NUMBERS = number of Hamas killed.

Really going to make this dipshit semantic argument now?

This is another lie from you and a poor deflection. It is certainly not a semantic argument.

You have contested the IDF calculated numbers (which I don't really take issue with) but you have also stood by and defended the Hamas run health ministry's numbers.

 

[Hog-train]

This is another lie from you and a poor deflection. It is certainly not a semantic argument.

You have contested the IDF calculated numbers (which I don't really take issue with) but you have also stood by and defended the Hamas run health ministry's numbers.

Yes I do not believe the IDF's calculated numbers. And I gave multiple reasons before in this thread which you can find with a search.

I also believe the Ministry's figures because they have a history of accuracy in the past and even Israel themselves went by the figures in prior conflicts. Plus I posted an article showing the entire methodology on how it's calculated. I talked about the reasons multiple times in this thread. Search function.

I've been consistent in what I've said. You don't agree and that's fine. Refute it logically or with facts. Otherwise stop engaging with me. Dialogue is a two way street. I'm not going to keep just answering your dumb probing questions if you can't answer the bare minimum of my questions.

 

[Samjj]

Yes I do not believe the IDF's calculated numbers. And I gave multiple reasons before in this thread which you can find with a search.

I also believe the Ministry's figures because they have a history of accuracy in the past and even Israel themselves went by the figures in prior conflicts. Plus I posted an article showing the entire methodology on how it's calculated. I talked about the reasons multiple times in this thread. Search function.

I've been consistent in what I've said. You don't agree and that's fine. Refute it logically or with facts. Otherwise stop engaging with me. Dialogue is a two way street. I'm not going to keep just answering your dumb probing questions if you can't answer the bare minimum of my questions.

Search function:

I recall posting a statistical analysis on why those numbers as they were a mathematical impossibility and you refused to engage with the source because the author's publication was published in a "Zionist" journal.

You're not interested in dialogue, you're interested in posting propaganda.