Official Judo Thread

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Are you familiar with these awkward moments where you don't know whether someone is joking or whether you're misunderstanding them? This is how i feel about your post.

Is he talking about Hifume Abe? Lol.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I'm of the mindset most bad takedown attempts are high risk...

I am a judoka myself but I do agree thaz judo is higher risk than wrestling generally. It s not even debatable IMO as it's obbiously ingrained in the Ippon mindset which encourages going for the one perfect/big throw that will win the fight in one second. If you miss your big throw you have options to reset.

In contrast, in wrestling it is much more about chaining attacks and continuous control in order to win on an accumulation of points. If you mess up a throw and give up your back you typically start losing points or at best you are in a shit position from which it will be tiring to get out or stall.

Then, on da streetz, turning throws, which tend to be more prevalent in judo, will typically be high impact and lead to a pin, which is pretty much fight ending. But fucking up your turning throw is not great with someone punching you and trying to gauge out your eyes. I think it's worse than messing up a wrestling leg attack.

Lastly, pretty much all judo throws rely on off balancing and timing to a greater extent than wrestling, which relies more on using strength at the right place. Therefore I think judo by design is more hit or miss.

 

[Patrick Jane]

Is he talking about Hifume Abe? Lol.

I literally googled whether there are other somewhat well known Hifumis in Judo after reading the post. Pretty sure Abe is the only one around. That makes the prediction that he might win an olympic medal one day a pretty good joke.

 

[Thrawn33]

I am a judoka myself but I do agree thaz judo is higher risk than wrestling generally. It s not even debatable IMO as it's obbiously ingrained in the Ippon mindset which encourages going for the one perfect/big throw that will win the fight in one second. If you miss your big throw you have options to reset.

In contrast, in wrestling it is much more about chaining attacks and continuous control in order to win on an accumulation of points. If you mess up a throw and give up your back you typically start losing points or at best you are in a shit position from which it will be tiring to get out or stall.

Then, on da streetz, turning throws, which tend to be more prevalent in judo, will typically be high impact and lead to a pin, which is pretty much fight ending. But fucking up your turning throw is not great with someone punching you and trying to gauge out your eyes. I think it's worse than messing up a wrestling leg attack.

Lastly, pretty much all judo throws rely on off balancing and timing to a greater extent than wrestling, which relies more on using strength at the right place. Therefore I think judo by design is more hit or miss.

I see where you're coming from, and respect your opinion.

"Throw to pin" was drilled into my skull by my first coach almost 20 years ago, and as a former HS wrestler I took it to heart. Coach's rationale was don't trust the officials to give you an ippon, be ready to earn it with oseakomi. While I do have a personal highlight reel of mstch ending throws, many of my scoring throws were wazaris (this was back in the yuko/koka era) to osekomi wazari aswete ippon.

I feel judo has lost its way in this manner, but that's the Neverending debate.

Amazingly enough, when I tell folks I was a wrestler before I went Judo back when you could leg grab, I get asked if I "shot" my way through novice divisions...

...fun fact, never once scored from any kind of double or single when it was comp legal, got stuffed and usualky paid for it. Sadly, at my last judo club where coach made it all legal, I was burying senior guys with doubles since they came up in the "leg touch bad" era.

 

[Emanuele]

Why there were World judo championships in these days? Since World judo championships became annual, they weren't held during Olympic years (2012, 2016, 2020).

 

[ChickenBrother]

I see where you're coming from, and respect your opinion.

"Throw to pin" was drilled into my skull by my first coach almost 20 years ago, and as a former HS wrestler I took it to heart. Coach's rationale was don't trust the officials to give you an ippon, be ready to earn it with oseakomi. While I do have a personal highlight reel of mstch ending throws, many of my scoring throws were wazaris (this was back in the yuko/koka era) to osekomi wazari aswete ippon.

I feel judo has lost its way in this manner, but that's the Neverending debate.

Amazingly enough, when I tell folks I was a wrestler before I went Judo back when you could leg grab, I get asked if I "shot" my way through novice divisions...

...fun fact, never once scored from any kind of double or single when it was comp legal, got stuffed and usualky paid for it. Sadly, at my last judo club where coach made it all legal, I was burying senior guys with doubles since they came up in the "leg touch bad" era.

It's definitely easier to stuff doubles and singles with gi grips than in no gi as long as uke knows how to sprawl, and this has been evident cornering my kid in wrestling and BJJ tournaments lately. I trained those (and Judo) separately with limited overlap so I learned different habits for each ruleset, but doing them concurrently can confuse the shit out of someone learning for the first time. We also just started doing Judo at another gym because I figured that gi throws and proper ukemi is too important to ignore. And of course I'm doing the adult class there too for personal enrichment and because I can't have my son thinking his dad is a bitch.

Last week did standing randori for the first time in years with actual Judo guys. The no leg grab thing is a mindfuck and I fucking hate it. New school judoka have no sprawl reflex (unlike the old days) so they just leave their legs out there. On the plus side you can focus more on ashi waza foot sweep chains but I don't see a lot of those working on wrestlers. One of the chains we worked on starts by feinting o uchi gari by bumping uke's thigh with your thigh and expecting him to step back. And they did another feint with o soto gari, also expecting uke to step back. In wrestling, BJJ (or pre-2010 Judo), I would have said "thank you for the high single" and high crotched them into bolivian.

I get that two dudes jumping around grabbing each other's pants in a stalemate is ugly but the best compromise was the 3 second time limit for leg grabs they instituted around 1994. You could go for singles and doubles but had to complete the throw in 3 seconds or let go of the grips. Same as the current 3-second limit for "unconventional" lapel grips or you get shido.