Opinion MAID is Not Only Unethical, It's Murder

[Sinister]

I get your point. It should never be offered or mentioned to anyone who has not requested it at the very least. Someone struggling with mental illness / depression should never have a medical professional suggest death. The damage could be irreversible.

No problem with any of that.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

While the gun option is messy, it's not the only option. I also think it's quite naive to believe that family members would be cool with their 20 something year old daughter choosing to do this, no matter the method, because they were pulled into a months/years long journey of their family member killing themselves. I bet they they would prefer them continuing treatment and, ya know, staying alive. Dead is dead.

Of course family members are gonna prefer that their loved ones stay alive but this whole discussion is based on the assumption that the person has already decided to end it. And of course, it's their choice, not their family's.

Bullet to the head, hanging, pill overdose, jumping off a bridge or a building, are all going to be traumatic, messy, undignified, possibly dangerous to passersby, and maybe not even final.

 

[Sinister]

Exactly.

Shooting yourself is also about a million times more traumatic for the living family members. Imagine coming home to your loved one hanging by the staircase or with their brains splattered across the living room.

Assisted suicide can prepare the family much better and is far more dignified.

What tickles me about this thread is it's the "medical freedom" crowd who are going to have the biggest problem with this.

Watching my Aunt deteriorate to complete immobility with ALS was pretty devastating. If she would have chose to check out before she was catatonic (brain still functions normally), I'd have helped her myself if it was legal. But its not so she rotted.

 

[Natural Order]

I have a background in physics and work in a technical field. Just because you have a trivial understanding of the climate issue, doesn't mean I do.

It's almost like you're immune from the logic of your own critique.

 

[HereticBD]

Bullet to the head, hanging, pill overdose, jumping off a bridge or a building, are all going to be traumatic, messy, undignified, possibly dangerous to passersby, and maybe not even final.

But it also takes conviction. Why do these people need "professionals" to help them with that decision? If they're not willing to do it themselves, then there is hope for them. Their brain isn't cool with it. It's amazing at what a calming voice with "credentials" can make people do, under the guise that it's the "right" choice.

 

[HereticBD]

What tickles me about this thread is it's the "medical freedom" crowd who are going to have the biggest problem with this.

Watching my Aunt deteriorate to complete immobility with ALS was pretty devastating. If she would have chose to check out before she was catatonic (brain still functions normally), I'd have helped her myself if it was legal. But its not so she rotted.

Condolences, but why are you bringing a case of the terminally ill into this? Nobody as far as I can tell, is against assisted suicide for the terminally ill. This is about executing the able bodied, non-terminally ill.

 

[dirtypablo]

It's almost like you're immune from the logic of your own critique.

I have no idea what this means. Immune from the logic of what critique?

Modern science has a solid understanding of many physical systems. The climate is a physical system that at least at the big picture level, is well understood.

Modern science doesn't have a solid understanding of the nature of mind, as it can't be investigated through the same types of methods as a physical system.

You have a trivial (at best) understanding of both these subjects.

 

[Natural Order]

I have no idea what this means. Immune from the logic of what critique?

Your critique of medicine.

 

[Poon Goon]

But it also takes conviction. Why do these people need "professionals" to help them with that decision? If they're not willing to do it themselves, then there is hope for them. Their brain isn't cool with it. It's amazing at what a calming voice with "credentials" can make people do, under the guise that it's the "right" choice.

So you are back to claiming that doctors are encouraging it.

 

[dirtypablo]

Your critique of medicine.

Modern science has a solid understanding of many physical systems. The climate is a physical system that at least at the big picture level, is well understood.

Modern science doesn't have a solid understanding of the nature of mind, as it can't be investigated through the same types of methods as a physical system.

You have a trivial (at best) understanding of both these subjects.

My criticism of 'medicine' was purely in regards to mental health, not anything to do with medicine as it pertains to the physical systems of the body.

 

[HereticBD]

So you are back to claiming that doctors are encouraging it.

Explain how one gets a rubber stamp from the medical community to kill themselves, without doctors signing off on it(that would be the encouragement part).

Oh' wait, you're a worthless troll. Carry on.

 

[Natural Order]

Modern science has a solid understanding of many physical systems. The climate is a physical system that at least at the big picture level, is well understood.

Modern science doesn't have a solid understanding of the nature of mind, as it can't be investigated through the same types of methods as a physical system.

You have a trivial (at best) understanding of both these subjects.

My criticism of 'medicine' was purely in regards to mental health, not anything to do with medicine as it pertains to the physical systems of the body.

The object we've had access to study the most is apparently the least known, you say?

Wife was watching "The Voice" tonight. Every second ad was from pharmaceuticals peddling garbage for well known "physical systems". You're a hack.

 

[Poon Goon]

Explain how one gets a rubber stamp from the medical community to kill themselves, without doctors signing off on it(that would be the encouragement part).

Don't think it's a rubber stamp and we've already confirmed that you don't really understand what encouragement is.

Oh' wait, you're a worthless troll. Carry on.

You are a Canadian that dedicates his time to defending all things American Republican, that is truly pathetic.

 

[dirtypablo]

The object we've had access to study the most is apparently the least known, you say?

The mind isn't an object, and I just explained why it's not well understood by modern science. It can't be investigated through the same methods as physical systems can.

 

[shockaholic12]

Condolences, but why are you bringing a case of the terminally ill into this? Nobody as far as I can tell, is against assisted suicide for the terminally ill. This is about executing the able bodied, non-terminally ill.

For the 10th time, is paralysis a terminal illness?

You advocated for paralyzed people to have the options for assisted suicide. They are not terminally ill. You're arguing against your own logic. Clown stuff.

 

[Sinister]

Condolences, but why are you bringing a case of the terminally ill into this? Nobody as far as I can tell, is against assisted suicide for the terminally ill. This is about executing the able bodied, non-terminally ill.

She would have been unable to do MAID anyway. It's illegal where she is, because of the sentiment that death MUST come naturally. You are making the same argument. She cannot choose death other than by her own hand, and she was physically incapacitated. Also ALS isnt always terminal. Hawking had it. In fact the medical facility put her on an order where they wouldn't even put in a feeding tube because they said if they did she could live another 10 further years or more on that, and we couldn't afford that. She was literally just condemned to die "

And as I pointed out earlier there are mental conditions which are terminal, because they cause suicidality. Suicidality is terminal often without medication, and sometimes even with. Some mental patients (notably schizophrenics) despise medicinal treatments because it has severe side-effects.

I just dont see a purpose in being very hardline about this. Death should be dignified, its part of the cycle of being a human being. Ideologies have made it this dark taboo. Choosing a dignified death over a tortured existence should always be an option.

 

[shockaholic12]

Modern science has a solid understanding of many physical systems. The climate is a physical system that at least at the big picture level, is well understood.

Modern science doesn't have a solid understanding of the nature of mind, as it can't be investigated through the same types of methods as a physical system.

You have a trivial (at best) understanding of both these subjects.

My criticism of 'medicine' was purely in regards to mental health, not anything to do with medicine as it pertains to the physical systems of the body.

The brain is a physical system.

 

[dirtypablo]

The brain is a physical system.

And we have a fairly good understanding of the brain. The mind isn't the brain.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

But it also takes conviction. Why do these people need "professionals" to help them with that decision? If they're not willing to do it themselves, then there is hope for them. Their brain isn't cool with it. It's amazing at what a calming voice with "credentials" can make people do, under the guise that it's the "right" choice.

The professionals aren't helping them with the decision, they're helping with the execution (no pun intended).

Just FYI, I am not in favor of doctors offering MAID as an option in non-terminal illness cases. The patient would have to ask for it themselves and then go through several steps before it's actually administered.

 

[shockaholic12]

And we have a fairly good understanding of the brain. The mind isn't the brain.

Yes it is.

There isn’t some magic system outside the brain that constitutes the mind. It’s the brain.