Why are we pretending Gaethje is a bigger win than Volk?

[Guy LeDouche]

This.
It’s an unpopular opinion but I agree. Volk was the longtime defending champ and Topuria finished him brutally and early.

While an amazing win over Justin, not taking anything away from that moment either. Justin was losing that fight and it was a beautiful moment in a fight for a fake belt.

To compare both I have to agree with Topuria. While fun, exciting and a highlight for the ages. It was not a display of two highest level fighters in a match of skill. It was a bar brawl of two tough fighters. Again not taking anything away from either guy, I loved every second of that fight too.

 

[MDoza]

Probably because Gaethje would kill Volk.

 

[Koro_11]

I'm pointing out that more happened in the fight than the finish. Max got a finish against Gaethje but that's not the most interesting thing about the fight. You aren't a very good fight analyst if all you are paying attention to is the finish.

To me, Max beating Gaethje pillar to post is more impressive than Topuria getting outstruck and knocking out Volk 4 months after he was previously KO'd.

Well, I disagree, I knew Max could dance around and outpoint him for a decision, it was the knockout that was impressive to me because the narrative was always that Max has no one punch power.

 

[Substance Abuse]

MMA fans hate everything. Rather than appreciate an epic moment, a complete victory and a surprise win, we're just going to tear everything down. Never change, Dawggers.

 

[maximus__]

I understand how susceptible sherdog is to recency bias and now that Max just had the biggest moment of UFC 300 everyone is ready to crown him p4p goat, but y'all must have forgot that the guy had no answer for Volk and failed in 3 attempts to defeat him.

Topuria is like a quicker younger Volk that will hit him much harder, I don't get this narrative that Max is just gonna go back to 145 and take the title.

Gaethje is definitely a solid win, but it's been done before, he's been finished by several dudes before, and he's good but he's simply not a championship level fighter.

I didn't understand all the people saying Max was gonna get dusted in that fight, I was picking Max all the way, one of the most dominant FW champions vs a fringe top 5 LW who never touched a title.

Now I couldn't predict the way Max would beat him of course, I had Max by cruise control decision and we were a second away from exactly that.

I definitely enjoyed the way it went down in the end as much as the next guy.

That said, if Max tries that with Ilia, it will be him that gets sent to the realm of shadows.

That performance does make the fight a bit more interesting because before that I wouldn't even give Max another shot at that title, but I still don't see him winning that fight. Ilia will put his lights out standing and Max is not outgrappling him, forget the final 5 seconds of Max/Justin and snap yourselves back to reality... Max had a great run, but Topuria is the present and the future in that division.

Because Max did nearly beat Volk in the 2nd fight. He was up two rounds and dropped Volk in those rounds.
Ilia on the other hand is the 2nd person to knock Volk out in 3 months and we all know he fought a compromised version of him. It's still a good win, but the dude came off elbow surgery, got KO'd and then turned around straight away and fought again.

Ilia has one good win and then a win over Emmet, plus he nearly got finished in his lone trip to LW after weight issues at 145. Max went up, outstruck a top 3 LW and then threw caution to the wind and finished him. It's one of the best non title (BMF doesn't count) in MMA.

Gaethje 100% hits harder than Ilia. Ilia has 3 KO's in the UFC, and 5 total. Gaethje has 20, 6 are in the UFC only ever against ranked competition. Ilia's path to victory against Max is grappling.

 

[Jose Beehive]

 

[djacobox372]

Volk is a bigger win for sure, but there are key differences:

• Volk was coming off of a knockout loss, Justin was coming off a win streak.
• Volk was essentially one-shot kayo'd in a fight he wasn't losing. Justin was dominated for 5 rounds and then stopped.
• Justin is a weight class higher than Volk
• Justin was a larger betting favorite than Volk was

The WAY Max won says a ton more about him than the way Topuria won.

 

[cburm]

I understand how susceptible sherdog is to recency bias and now that Max just had the biggest moment of UFC 300 everyone is ready to crown him p4p goat, but y'all must have forgot that the guy had no answer for Volk and failed in 3 attempts to defeat him.

Topuria is like a quicker younger Volk that will hit him much harder, I don't get this narrative that Max is just gonna go back to 145 and take the title.

Gaethje is definitely a solid win, but it's been done before, he's been finished by several dudes before, and he's good but he's simply not a championship level fighter.

I didn't understand all the people saying Max was gonna get dusted in that fight, I was picking Max all the way, one of the most dominant FW champions vs a fringe top 5 LW who never touched a title.

Now I couldn't predict the way Max would beat him of course, I had Max by cruise control decision and we were a second away from exactly that.

I definitely enjoyed the way it went down in the end as much as the next guy.

That said, if Max tries that with Ilia, it will be him that gets sent to the realm of shadows.

That performance does make the fight a bit more interesting because before that I wouldn't even give Max another shot at that title, but I still don't see him winning that fight. Ilia will put his lights out standing and Max is not outgrappling him, forget the final 5 seconds of Max/Justin and snap yourselves back to reality... Max had a great run, but Topuria is the present and the future in that division.

You're looking at from a knowledgeable stand point as a fan and promoter it's way bigger because of weight classes max moved up and smoked the number 2 lw in the world ... Huge

Bigger than if gaethje smoked volk
And if gaethje won ited Ben just a good fight or a yeah as expected..

 

[orca]

Say something negative about him and they come out of the woodwork lol

pretty sure 90 percent of the people here say nasty things about him

yeah as an mma fan i dont give a fck about his life outside

what matters most is that he has the hardest resume
the best resume
no fighter in this lifetime could surpass it

 

[orca]

You're looking at from a knowledgeable stand point as a fan and promoter it's way bigger because of weight classes max moved up and smoked the number 2 lw in the world ... Huge

Bigger than if gaethje smoked volk
And if gaethje won ited Ben just a good fight or a yeah as expected..

bro no one gives credit to jones moving 60 lbs in weight
choking the number 1 guy at HW

why the fk is gaetche bigger than volk lmao

just say that you like max hes a fan favorite
thats why his wins are always relevant

 

[Bowel-forged Stool]

It isn’t, but it is.

I know I sound like a moron on oxy for saying that, but it’s quite the opposite.

 

[StonedLemur]

pretty sure 90 percent of the people here say nasty things about him

yeah as an mma fan i dont give a fck about his life outside

what matters most is that he has the hardest resume
the best resume
no fighter in this lifetime could surpass it

Hendo has the best overall resume

 

[moreorless87]

Well, I disagree, I knew Max could dance around and outpoint him for a decision, it was the knockout that was impressive to me because the narrative was always that Max has no one punch power.

Although that situation is fairly unique, basically Max calling Justin to throw down in the last few seconds knowing he'd probably accept as he was losing, allowed him to really sit down on his punches in a way he typically doesnt.

I think you could argue as well that Gaethje isnt a million miles from Aldo as a fighter, he's larger with more power and somewhat less technical but really his style has tended to be to win by slow methodical beatdown with the potential for slipping in a big shot. He's at his best technically in a fairly slow fight picking out lowkicks and one off punches similar to Aldo and Max's sucess vs Aldo really build on pressure. I think the question before the fight was really whether Justin's power would end up being too much for max to pressure him.

Against Volk I think Max was fighting someone a bit similar to himself, not as much finishing ability but someone who looks to strike with volume and isnt so afraid of pressure. Volks undoing recently was fighting two guys who had the power to really hurt him, with Islam I think mixed up with the grappling threat which forced him to take more risks standing up with Topuria someone with the ability to land really big KO punchs at any moment.

Gaethje 100% hits harder than Ilia. Ilia has 3 KO's in the UFC, and 5 total. Gaethje has 20, 6 are in the UFC only ever against ranked competition. Ilia's path to victory against Max is grappling.

If he lands his best shot but I think how they land there best shots differs, I don't think he's tended to show the ability to pick out a KO shot the way we saw Topuria do against Max, it tends to me more either in a brawl or when he's in control of a fight.

Max isnt a brawler the way Volk isnt a brawler, they do take punishment but look to avoid taking their opponents best shots as they pressure them and I think thats potentially much harder vs Topuria than Justin..

 

[spinitch]

Topuria got a FW division title via KO from someone Max most recently lost convincingly. Earlier fights close Max vs Volk, to close to say yippee great win. Topuria needs a defense or 2 to catch the bonus and PR Max gained at 300. So Topuria KO over Volk should in near term propel him past Max throw down with Justin if he wins again. Max just made a great moment with the throw down.

 

[Robbocop]

At least one of those Volk losses felt like a robbery for Holloway, if not two of them. And I'm a big Volk fan but there was for sure some lay and praying, which was the style at the time. War Max Holloway!

 

[Poirierfan]

I don't think I've seen anyone say that. This is a strawman.

Me neither, literally no one's said that. Lol

 

[maximus__]

Although that situation is fairly unique, basically Max calling Justin to throw down in the last few seconds knowing he'd probably accept as he was losing, allowed him to really sit down on his punches in a way he typically doesnt.

I think you could argue as well that Gaethje isnt a million miles from Aldo as a fighter, he's larger with more power and somewhat less technical but really his style has tended to be to win by slow methodical beatdown with the potential for slipping in a big shot. He's at his best technically in a fairly slow fight picking out lowkicks and one off punches similar to Aldo and Max's sucess vs Aldo really build on pressure. I think the question before the fight was really whether Justin's power would end up being too much for max to pressure him.

Against Volk I think Max was fighting someone a bit similar to himself, not as much finishing ability but someone who looks to strike with volume and isnt so afraid of pressure. Volks undoing recently was fighting two guys who had the power to really hurt him, with Islam I think mixed up with the grappling threat which forced him to take more risks standing up with Topuria someone with the ability to land really big KO punchs at any moment.




If he lands his best shot but I think how they land there best shots differs, I don't think he's tended to show the ability to pick out a KO shot the way we saw Topuria do against Max, it tends to me more either in a brawl or when he's in control of a fight.

Max isnt a brawler the way Volk isnt a brawler, they do take punishment but look to avoid taking their opponents best shots as they pressure them and I think thats potentially much harder vs Topuria than Justin..

Mate, I get it. Ilia KO'd Volk but before that he was beating Emmet, who is way over ranked. Then we go all the way to Bryce Mitchell for another ranked win.
Gaethje and Max on the other hand have two of the best resumes in their division. Gaethje has landed that big shot on some of the best strikers in FW and it's taken Eddie Alvarez (multiple time LW champ in most orgs), Poirer (1-1), Khabib, Charles and now Max to finish him. Ilia doesn't make it through that gauntlet either, he tried 155 and immediately went back down.

 

[Steve Fox]

I haven't read one single Sherbro saying that Max is P4P or that Gaethje is a bigger win than Volk.

I think you have other things going on with you TS. Maybe you really like Gaethje? You lost money on the fight? You don't like Max? Only you know the answer.

 

[is a]

Maybe it's because there was a major risk of Max turning into Ferguson in that fight but he turned that fight against and finished it with one of the best KOs ever for this year?

This is the same Gaetjhe who head kicked Poirier into oblivion and defeated Rafael Fiziev (a major one) so it was clear that this was a Gaetjhe who was still in his prime.

Btw Max cutting back to 145 for that Topuria fight would be an unintelligent (albeit understandable) decision. Make Topuria move up for that fight instead because the reverse is Max trying to grant himself a death wish.

Inb4 eating crow but Max isn't a small fighter by any stretch of the imagination (5'11, skinny asf even at 155 and gained size for that Gaetjhe fight) and cutting that extra 10lb will compromise his durability and stamina.

Compromises that Max cannot afford to take against someone who sits at a FW but could very well easily erase the vast majority of the LW division should he move up for shits and giggles.

Take safety measures when dealing with dangerous animals, even in MMA!

 

[Koro_11]

Although that situation is fairly unique, basically Max calling Justin to throw down in the last few seconds knowing he'd probably accept as he was losing, allowed him to really sit down on his punches in a way he typically doesnt.

I think you could argue as well that Gaethje isnt a million miles from Aldo as a fighter, he's larger with more power and somewhat less technical but really his style has tended to be to win by slow methodical beatdown with the potential for slipping in a big shot. He's at his best technically in a fairly slow fight picking out lowkicks and one off punches similar to Aldo and Max's sucess vs Aldo really build on pressure. I think the question before the fight was really whether Justin's power would end up being too much for max to pressure him.

Against Volk I think Max was fighting someone a bit similar to himself, not as much finishing ability but someone who looks to strike with volume and isnt so afraid of pressure. Volks undoing recently was fighting two guys who had the power to really hurt him, with Islam I think mixed up with the grappling threat which forced him to take more risks standing up with Topuria someone with the ability to land really big KO punchs at any moment.




If he lands his best shot but I think how they land there best shots differs, I don't think he's tended to show the ability to pick out a KO shot the way we saw Topuria do against Max, it tends to me more either in a brawl or when he's in control of a fight.

Max isnt a brawler the way Volk isnt a brawler, they do take punishment but look to avoid taking their opponents best shots as they pressure them and I think thats potentially much harder vs Topuria than Justin..

Good analysis, so we basically agree that Topuria will be much more difficult for Max than Justin was.